Why should the reserve system be continued in higher education institutions and government posts?

Updated on : January 21, 2022 by Kristina Merritt



Why should the reserve system be continued in higher education institutions and government posts?

I belong to the general category and I support the reservation based on caste.

Now, as soon as I mention this opinion of mine in a public place, all the anti-reservation activists and pro-merit fundamentalists pounce on me seeing me as a holier Devil's advocate than you. They try to convince me why merit should take precedence and how the long-term future of the nation requires a more liberal environment rather than a system chained to reserves.

Believe me, I have given due thought to this argument and I respect your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Therefore, in the name of the libertarian

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I belong to the general category and I support the reservation based on caste.

Now, as soon as I mention this opinion of mine in a public place, all the anti-reservation activists and pro-merit fundamentalists pounce on me seeing me as a holier Devil's advocate than you. They try to convince me why merit should take precedence and how the long-term future of the nation requires a more liberal environment rather than a system chained to reserves.

Believe me, I have given due thought to this argument and I respect your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Therefore, in the name of libertarianism, I ask the reader of this answer to read it with an open mind. If you have already decided that the reservation should be made, do not read on.

It's going to be a long answer, and so to keep it less monotonous, I'll adopt the Feynman Technique by answering the usual questions posed by the aforementioned pro-merit activists.

Q. You scored IIT without having to suffer the pain of falling behind on this highly competitive JEE exam. You know nothing of the ordeal a general candidate goes through as he gets lost by the millimeter as he watches his friends in the SC / ST / OBC category qualify with lower marks.

A. I gave the 2012 civil service exam where I passed the power grid, gave the interview, but couldn't make the final list because of a few marks. Also, some of my coaching lotmates with lower scores became officers because they belonged to the category and their cut was lower than my marks.

Was I frustrated?
Yes, I studied around 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for 1.5 years for that attempt. I rarely took a break. So it's natural to feel frustrated when you don't qualify after such an experience.

But I still hold my opinion. Should management ditch its goals and targets simply because of the emotions of some frustrated people who failed to qualify on the final list? It is analogous to saying that the judiciary must base its sentences on the feelings of the relatives of the aggrieved and not on impartial jurisprudence.

The administration must strike a good balancing act by being sensitive to public opinion without allowing mere public sentiments to emerge as the arbiter of law and policy making. The tendency to base decisions on society's changing notions of rights and evil must be curbed, but instead, the decision-making process must be derived from a long-term perspective and constitutional morality.

Therefore, those who discredit the reservation system solely on the basis of some poignant stories from general category students who failed to qualify for a certain exam, I regret to say, must present a more debatable argument.


Q. Caste is a phenomenon of the past that is slowly fading. The caste-based reservation will only accentuate the underlying evils of the caste system.

A. It is necessary to realize that Caste is not fading.

The harsh reality is that the caste system in the contemporary period has tended to become "invisible" to the upper, upper middle and upper classes. For these groups, who have benefited most from the development policies of the post-colonial era, caste seems to lose importance precisely because it has done its job so well. Their caste status has been crucial in ensuring that these groups had the financial and educational resources necessary to take full advantage of the opportunities offered by rapid development. In particular, the elites of the upper castes (back then, the elites belonged only to the upper castes) were able to benefit from professional education in science, technology, medicine, and management. At the same time, They were also able to take advantage of the expansion of state sector jobs in the first decades after Independence. In this initial period, their leadership over the rest of society (in terms of education) ensured that they did not face any serious competition. As their privileged status consolidated in the second and third generations, these groups began to believe that their advancement had little to do with castes. This is the reality of merit today. these groups began to believe that their advance had little to do with castes. This is the reality of merit today. these groups began to believe that their advance had little to do with castes. This is the reality of merit today.

For SC / ST / OBC, the opposite has happened. For them, the caste has become too visible, so that their caste has overshadowed all other dimensions of their identities. They have not inherited education or economic capital and now, because they must compete with an established upper caste group, they cannot afford to abandon their only collective asset: their caste. They still continue to face discrimination of various kinds. Reservation policies are your only source of inspiration, rather, your lifeline.

For some of us, who still do not see or do not want to see how these other castes are discriminated against, I invite you to see the following documentary.

It is time for us to lift our ostrich heads from the comfortable sands and realize the truth.

Documentary: Untouched India


Q. What is the problem with granting reservations on an economic basis? Why not abolish the caste base and usher in a more equal reservation?

A. If you have seen the video above, I think this query should have been answered automatically.
But anyway, to answer this question, I ask a counter-question:
"Is it okay to take a medicine meant to cure a headache for stomach pain? After all, they are both medicines."

In fact, you will be surprised at the stupidity of the question. However, some of you suggest economic reservation as an alternative to caste-based reservation.

Caste is a unique and peculiar social phenomenon based on the principles of:

1) Hierarchy (Inherent Inequality: Dalit women are often raped simply to remind untouchables of their position in society. However, some of us say that caste is a rapidly fading phenomenon).

2) Continuous purity-contamination (Dalits are on the receiving end of this continuum. Some of them have to carry a broom with them as they walk to erase their tracks EVEN TODAY)

3) Ascriptive (determined by birth: it is never a matter of choice. It is, in principle, impossible for a person to ever change the circumstances of his life).

4) Inbreeding (therefore all ways out of this rabbit hole are blocked)

5) Related to occupation (a Dalit cannot change his occupation even if he wants to. He is unable to see a better future for his children. Just think about it).

6) Rules of conduct (Sharing food: a Dalit cannot drink tea from the same cup he rests. What about the self-confidence of children who grow up in such an environment?)

Now I ask, which of these atrocities are shared by the curse of poverty? How can we match the two?

We must remember that the reserve is not like an unemployment benefit.
It is a serious effort to bring a sense of fairness to an unjust society. It is not a cast.

Q. But what about equality? Isn't giving quotas to a select few another form of injustice?

A. It must always be remembered that equality is always between equals and treating unequals as equals is nothing more than perpetuating inequality even more.

The following image beautifully describes this thought process.

Those who believe in political democracy must also believe in social and economic democracy, otherwise the lofty goals of establishing an egalitarian society would remain mere goals.

Suppose we have a race in which 2 runners participate. The first person is supposed to carry a 50 kg backpack on their back, while the second person can run without a load. After the middle of the race is over, the burden of the first person is removed "ushering in an era of equality" and both are told to finish the race on their "merit." Is it what we call equality? The worst point is that the first person still carries the load.


Q. The founding ancestors envisaged the reservation only for a period of 10 years. Why does it continue until now?

A. Well, apparently our framers of the Constitution quite underestimated the depth to which caste-based inequality is ingrained in our Society.
For a detailed answer to this question, I would invite the reader to carefully study the Ambedkar-Gandhi debate (post-communal award debate) and the Ambedkar vs Nehru discussions.

Along with reading such debates, the statistics should also be kept in our memory. How many of our nation's top positions (both public and private) are held by these communities? Is it a mere coincidence that a nation that has produced brilliant minds like Ambedkar, does not send even a handful of people to the highest echelons, despite its reservations?

So the main question is, instead of debating about the number of years, we should ask ourselves if the Reservation System has been followed in good faith.

Q. But the reserve system is used for the politics of the Bank of Votes and the SC / ST who deserve it never have the opportunity and the seats are filled by the richest candidates who belong to the category.

A. Now this is a good question.

I fully agree that the current implementation of the reservation system leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the points that could be debated include:

1) Creamy coating on SC / STs
2) Once in a lifetime benefit
3) A transparent evaluation system and consequent abolition of Caste-based promotions.
4) Percentage distribution of seats.
5) Principle of inclusion / exclusion followed for the allocation of seats.

All of these points are definitely worth debating, but meaningful debate can only take place in an environment conducive to the free flow of ideas and not shackled by emotionally grounded fundamentalism.

The main objective of imposing a time limit was not that our ancestors were in a hurry to end this system, but that they hoped that an egalitarian society would be achieved sooner.

P. But what is the error of the general category students? Why should they suffer due to an unequal society?

A. Can the rights of citizens have an undue precedent without any obligation of obligations towards the nation? When we are born into society, we automatically inherit the privileges and responsibilities that come with membership. It is our highest duty to ensure that a certain degree of equity is established in society and inclusive development goals are met.

He agreed that there are flaws in the system. So, in fact, there is a need to correct it and discuss it with an open mind considering the broader realities. But to say that the entire system should be scrapped because my personal interests are being harmed in the short term is definitely a disservice to our nation.

Some excerpts taken from: Indian Society, Hindu Newspaper

I recommend that you read this answer completely.

It is not possible to have Utopia. People are born with different opportunities and we have to accept it. That being said, if you want to bridge the gap between rich and poor, it is a good thing that you give it a try. But no, booking is not the solution.

You can justify the reservation by spinning all you want, but ultimately everyone knows it's not fair. If you think it is, I feel bad for you. Even financial reserves are not the solution. Why?

If you are going to allow a person who does not have a basic knowledge on the subject to compete w

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I recommend that you read this answer completely.

It is not possible to have Utopia. People are born with different opportunities and we have to accept it. That being said, if you want to bridge the gap between rich and poor, it is a good thing that you give it a try. But no, booking is not the solution.

You can justify the reservation by spinning all you want, but ultimately everyone knows it's not fair. If you think it is, I feel bad for you. Even financial reserves are not the solution. Why?

If you are going to allow a person who does not have a basic knowledge of the subject to compete with the best minds in the country who have worked hard and studied it properly, they will obviously do it horribly. So there is no point in giving reservations, whether for financial reasons or because of social class, because eventually they will realize that they do not deserve the seat (because they cannot cope with the competition) and they fall into depression and sometimes, they even commit suicide.

I am in favor of equality, but giving reservations is by no means a solution. It is not even a temporary solution. The only thing that happens is the division in our country and the reputation of the main institutions collapses.

The only solution is for the government to really address the problem that is not discrimination or the financial gap, but to actually improve public schools.

But this will never happen. Never.

You see the parties that come to power, they promise reserve and affirmative action so that the naive and simple-minded lower castes think that they have chosen a leader who will solve their problems but they are doing the opposite. They have elected a leader who is useless and who does not have the capacity to deal with the problem of bad government schools. They know that they will be re-elected based on caste and they don't have to do any work and rather loot people's money by taking it themselves. When the election returns in 4 years, repeat the same cycle. If not, some other caste leader who has no knowledge of the government will be elected and the lower castes will remain underdeveloped.

This vicious cycle repeats itself not because of the discrimination they face but because of the leaders they elect. Unless people stop voting on the basis of caste and vote for a leader who can truly develop his constituency, they will remain underdeveloped. This is what is happening in Bihar and it will always be so.

I'm not saying that all lower caste leaders are bad, but most of those who get votes only by caste end up doing nothing. The root cause of the problems is underdevelopment and poor quality of schools. The faster people realize this, the faster we will move towards a country free from discrimination.

Unfortunately, leaders don't want people to understand this and they try to mask the problem by increasing the reserve and offering it to everyone and people think they are getting a good deal. It is sad how national parties have resorted to this and I hope that our country develops for the better and that we do not have leaders who divide us and get votes when they do not deserve it.

I'm not saying don't vote for a leader who is of a lower caste. If you really are a good leader who works hard and helps develop new schools and improves the quality of life in your constituency, then please vote for him / her.

But don't vote for someone just because they are of the same caste as you. That's one of the stupidest things you can do, and if you think that's the solution to social inequality, you deserve to be oppressed.

Do not try to increase the reserve as you will ultimately lose when you cannot compete with those who entered on merit.

Decide wisely.

Well. I am an OBC and I honestly hate reservations.
Did I use it?
Yes.
I'm happy about that.
NO!!

Okay, a bit from my experience. I am from a well educated middle class family. I got each and every facility regarding education from my LKG to my JEE preparation as my education was the top priority for my parents.
And even with such facilities and such care, I blew it. I got an AIR in a 9k range, but I was still able to get into one of the old IITs with people who got a rank in the 3k range.

SO HERE'S MY QUESTION TO ALL OBC SC / ST GUYS, HOW MANY OF YOU REALLY FEEL FROM BELOW

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Well. I am an OBC and I honestly hate reservations.
Did I use it?
Yes.
I'm happy about that.
NO!!

Okay, a bit from my experience. I am from a well educated middle class family. I got each and every facility regarding education from my LKG to my JEE preparation as my education was the top priority for my parents.
And even with such facilities and such care, I blew it. I got an AIR in a 9k range, but I was still able to get into one of the old IITs with people who got a rank in the 3k range.

SO HERE'S MY QUESTION TO ALL THE GUYS AT OBC SC / ST, HOW MANY OF YOU REALLY FEEL FROM THE BOTTOM OF YOUR HEARTS THAT YOU DESERVED A RESERVATION?

Okay, at least those SC guys' ancestors were victims of discrimination, cruelty, and what not, but what about OBCs? OBC never faced any discrimination. And now even the Patels of Gujrat and Patils of Maharashtra want to enter the OBC reserve. The same patils who were rulers in the Maratha empire in Maharashtra a few centuries ago. The OBC reserve is the biggest conservation policy joke.

Now coming to the guys from sc / st. Okay, your ancestors were victims of brutal discrimination, cruelty, and many of your siblings are still suffering.
"Dalit women are raped, beaten naked in the streets, killed by some." Look, there is still a lot of discrimination out there. therefore, we deserve a reservation for 100 more years ...
REALLY? Isn't the justification pretty lame? I mean the weak, the oppressed are still discriminated against in the small villages and you claim that WE deserve reservations because THEY suffered.
That's so selfish of you. It's the same over and over again, people from highly educated families are reaping the benefits of the reserve and those who truly deserve it still suffer in the villages. They have no idea how much they have benefited.
There are always exceptions, but at least what I have seen among most of my friends, 80% of them did not deserve reservations (even I am stating that I did not deserve it). As in the IIT and IIM, most of them come from well-educated families and some even from very wealthy families. An Avg obc type is always less smart than a general avg type and a sc / st avg type is always less smart than an obc and that's a given and when they all assemble in one place obviously there will be a big difference quality and therefore people are bound to criticize if you don't perform well.
Okay, accepted people belonging to OBC and SC / ST '

Okay, now let's forget our categories and think about this matter selflessly for INDIA.
Don't you think reserves are ruining our educational system?
Don't you think reserves are creating a gap between the general and the reserved and dividing India?
Don't you think that if reservations continue, discrimination will increase day by day?
Don't you think reservations are making us lazy?
Don't you think the government labels them as WEAKNESSES?
Don't you think that achieving something independently would be much better?
Don't you think SC / ST and OBC or generals from rural areas really deserve reservation compared to us?
Don'

If you think YES, at least stop defending the reservation system and accept that it has many loopholes. And to all the guys in general, I FEEL them. I know it is very unfair to you and me and I just hope that people like me increase day by day and someday someone of us will surely FIX this faulty system.

On a lighter note, I am in favor of reserving women rather than caste based on at least IIT, at least most of us would get a girl then: P

JAI HIND.

I am also adding my comment to the most voted answer here.

The notion that the general category loses in unfair competition due to reservation in education is wrong. One must read and understand Ambedkar before talking about social inequality and reservations in the Indian context.

General category students (I belong here) do not lose out in any kind of unfair competition for reservations.

  1. When a certain section is reserved, the existing number of seats is first increased and then the increased seats are reserved.
  2. Because of this, the competition within the general category is not disturbed.
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I am also adding my comment to the most voted answer here.

The notion that the general category loses in unfair competition due to reservation in education is wrong. One must read and understand Ambedkar before talking about social inequality and reservations in the Indian context.

General category students (I belong here) do not lose out in any kind of unfair competition for reservations.

  1. When a certain section is reserved, the existing number of seats is first increased and then the increased seats are reserved.
  2. Because of this, the competition within the general category is not disturbed. So someone in the general category who scores 99th percentile this year has about the same chance of being selected next year if he scores the same percentile.
  3. The objective of the reserve is to give opportunity to the weaker sections, although they obtain a lower score than others. So a statement that "it is unfair for someone in the General category to score higher than someone in the reserved category not to be selected" has no merit as a complaint, because that is the whole idea of ​​the reservation.
  4. The reservation in India was not introduced to take revenge on the upper castes for anything their ancestors did. It was introduced as a mechanism to establish social equality in the 4,000-year-old caste-dominated Indian society and to provide opportunities for Dalits who have been oppressed for 4,000 years.
  5. The assumption behind the reservation is that the reserved category cannot compete with others (due to social inequality in the Indian context) and therefore must be pressed for equal opportunities. So if you see that SC / ST compete fairly with the General category, your reserve fee can be waived.
  6. Social inequality arises by oppressing certain sectors and, by pushing them up, reserve and affirmative action provide equal opportunities. On the other hand, economic inequality is addressed through scholarships to compensate for the lack of money and thus provide equal opportunities to the poor.


Furthermore, there is this argument that the reserve decreases the efficiency of the system. This is also faulty reasoning.

  1. First of all, the principle behind the reservation is to expose the abilities of the Outcasts and use them in the same way as those of the advanced castes.
  2. Second, the large number of advanced caste people does not translate into an efficient system. It is absurd to suggest that Dalits cannot fit into most of the professions that advanced caste people adopt.
  3. However, even if we assume that the numbers produce an efficiency effect, as I noted above, the reservation applies only to the increased seats and therefore this factor does not change. In fact, we increased the number of people, and based on that argument, the efficiency should remain the same in the worst-case scenario where reserved seats add a value of 0.
  4. But in reality, the reservation tries to use the skill of the outcast, which the caste system tries not to encourage. To combat this, nothing but affirmative action is a practical approach. It is a radical and realistic form of elevation.


In conclusion, I believe that the sociological perspective is not something that we are naturally predisposed to understand, unlike gravity or catching a ball that we are naturally predisposed to understand. It is very important that we have a sociological perspective when dealing with issues related to social equality. This is something that we must acquire in order to provide practical solutions to improve society.

Reservations are not just about quotas,
From Above article by The Hindu
Perception and social contract

In the imagination of the upper castes, the reservation is indelibly marked as a welfare program that gives handouts to a set of caste-marked "beneficiaries." From this perspective, those who receive this benefit - the "reserved category" - are deviant exceptions that fall outside the normal "general category" of non-caste citizens that constitute the nation. It is this casteless nation that gives reservations to certain castes to make up for "historical mistakes" made in the distant past.

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Reservations are not just about quotas,
From Above article by The Hindu
Perception and social contract

In the imagination of the upper castes, the reservation is indelibly marked as a welfare program that gives handouts to a set of caste-marked "beneficiaries." From this perspective, those who receive this benefit - the "reserved category" - are deviant exceptions that fall outside the normal "general category" of non-caste citizens that constitute the nation. It is this caste-free nation that gives reservations to certain castes to compensate for the "historical errors" made to them in the distant past and to help them overcome their backwardness. Only when the reservation is understood in this way, can we make sense of objections such as: How long will the reservations continue? Why is caste and not financial need the criterion? And of forms of protest,
From this point of view, it is impossible to see that the true origins of the reservation lie in a good faith promise that forms the core of the social contract on which our nation is founded. The reservation is a pre-independence policy inaugurated by the Government of India Act 1935, which created schedules listing the so-called scheduled castes (SC) and scheduled tribes (ST). The politics itself is the result of the Poona Pact between Gandhi and Ambedkar, in which the latter was forced to withdraw the claim of the untouchable castes to a separate electorate in exchange for guaranteed representation in the legislature and the broad security of that the nation, represented by Gandhi and Congress, would do everything possible to end untouchability and caste discrimination. Therefore, The reservation is a fundamentally political promise made in recognition of the fact that caste literally excludes important communities from Indian society. Since independence is demanded on behalf of the Indian nation, and since the modern nation is supposed to be an egalitarian form of community, the Poona Pact is a compromise whereby the untouchables agree to renounce their claim for a nation ( electorate) own. and to be part of the larger nation despite its caste exclusion. In short, the reservation claims to be the answer, of a nationalist movement led by the upper castes, to the bitter truth in Ambedkar's poignant statement: "Gandhiji, I have no homeland." and since the modern nation is supposed to be an egalitarian form of community, The Poona Pact is a compromise whereby the untouchables agree to renounce their claim for a nation (electorate) of their own and to be part of the larger nation regardless of caste. exclusion. In short, the reservation claims to be the answer, of a nationalist movement led by the upper castes, to the bitter truth in Ambedkar's poignant statement: "Gandhiji, I have no homeland." And since the modern nation is supposed to be an egalitarian form of community, the Poona Pact is a compromise by which the untouchables agree to give up their claim for a nation (electorate) of their own and to be part of the larger nation despite of his caste. exclusion. In short, the reserve claims to be the answer, of a nationalist movement led by the upper castes,
Beyond wellness

From this perspective, the reserve cannot be equated to this or that healthcare benefit, since it is intended to be something incomparably greater: the promise of full citizenship. The degree to which this promise is fulfilled automatically decides the duration of the policy. The reservation must cease to exist from the day discrimination, oppression and gross inequalities based on caste cease to exist, because then all castes would have full citizenship. Note that such a policy is not about "historical errors" in the dark past, but about contemporary forms of caste inequality, and that replacing caste with economic criteria loses all sense of caste discrimination that exists in various forms at all the classes.
The first arises from the need to turn the abstract promise of full citizenship into a concrete reality, a conversion that inevitably requires the creation of specific rights for specific castes. This, in turn, encourages already biased observers to equate politics with the material benefits unfairly bestowed on an undeserved interest group that freely feeds on the populist compulsions of electoral politics. The second difficulty has to do with the profound interrelation of the social and economic dimensions of caste discrimination and the related enigma of evaluating the empirical and legal similarities and differences between CSs, STs, and OBCs.

Caste determines food expenditure, job choice: NSSO

2 pages of NCERT class 12th INDIAN SOCIETY

I am a sc category boy, I am not poor, I come from a decent upper middle class family. Recently, I have seen many people criticizing the reservation system and I think it is totally justified as there are so many people who cannot make it to the best universities, even with such high scores on various exams, while the guys enjoy the benefits. del The reservation system obtains admissions with very low percentiles / marks.
So that's my opinion, I'm against reservations.
Before getting to the final answer I would like to share some incidents from my life.
1) 5th class
playing with some of my friends

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I am a sc category guy, I am not poor I come from a decent upper middle class family. Recently I have seen a lot of people criticizing the reservation system and I think that it is totally justified as there are so many people who are unable to make it to top colleges even with such high scores in various examinations while the guys enjoying the benefits of the reservation system get admissions at very low percentiles / marks.
So that is my view, I am against reservation.
Before coming to the end answer I would like to share some incidents from my life.
1) class 5th
Playing with some of my friends in a park (we used to live in a decent colony in delhi and I havent heard of anything like caste discrimination infact I never knew what caste is), suddenly i started making fun of a guy who just slipped in the mud. Now it was just small kids laughing making fun of a friend, I dont know what happened to him he started calling me names like zamadaar (sweeper), chamaar tum saale aise hi hote ho low class (you guys are like that only lower class and cheap) and many more things. I never get to know from where he got to know about my caste and which is lower and higher (may be parents but why ??). I still dint get it and thought all the guys have given me that name just like that as everybody used to call each other stupid names.
2) class 10th in the school I still dint had any idea what my caste is what does it means as I never faced any other discrimination other than that I told about in the 1 point.
So the teacher gave us a form to fill in which I needed to fill my caste, I looked at all other guys and copied there answer and wrote general in the blank, went back home asked my dad to sign that form, he saw it and told me that your caste is sc crossed the tick marked sc. Next day when I went to the school everybody was checking out each other's forms to make fun, my best friend who has been my friend from class 2 saw that sc is written in the category option, just got a shock of his life (I have no idea why). Then he said "you are a sc you never told us that before" and from then occasional calling me names (which only people from my neighborhood used to call me as mentioned in point 1) was there till 12th. And me and that guy were no more best friends anymore.
From then I never told anyone what my caste is I always said something else, cz I feared that if I told them my caste then they will stop respecting / talking to me.

So now lets come to the conclusion I even being from an upper middle class infact almost from a rich family faced caste based discrimination what do u think happens to the others. So I am against reservation but before cursing the government or saying bad things to people who are benefiting from the reservation system please do something against the caste discrimination and raise your voice against it too.
PS- It was a nice public school in delhi. And I never used reservation in my life as I never went to a college started my own business by myself (worked in a call center for 2 years)
And forgive me for all the grammatical and spelling mistakes as am not good at writing. And I wish that one day all the people of this country will be treated as equals regardless of their caste, religion, sex etc.
Edit: I am open to criticism as one person on this answer commented that "you backwards deserve calling names as you want everything for free" which he later on deleted, so I am open to discuss debate or answer to any of your questions: - )

Well, this has always been a subject of great controversy and confusion. The British ruled us for 200 years. They committed atrocities and genocides in India. Do you owe us any reparations or apologies? The British are not morally obliged to pay for the losses they caused us !! Why did Germany pay war reparations? Because they did something wrong. But would the British love to pay for it? No, not a bit. But does it release them from their moral debt? Forget paying for repairs, they have even apologized for all the wrongs they did to India.
Now extend the same to lower caste people. The only

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Well this always has been a topic of great controversy and confusion. British ruled us for 200 years. They committed atrocities and genocides in India. Do they owe any reparations or apologies to us? Are not British morally obliged to pay for the losses they caused to us !! Why did Germany pay war reparations? Because they did something wrong. But would British love to pay for it? No not one bit. But does it highlight them of their moral debt? Forget about paying reparations, have they even apologized for all the wrongs they did to India.
Now extend the same thing to lower caste people. The only thing that changes is that it was for 2000 years and much worse than British for lower caste people. Does upper class owe lower class for the atrocities? Just imagine how much of loss has been incurred by lower class for not having fair chances to develop themselves for a period of two millennia.
Well people don't know that India's share of GDP in world economy was 23 percent when British came to our shores. Now it is about 3 percent even after we have been independent for 70 years. So gentlemen that's the loss we have suffered from just 200 years of colonialism. Imagine what would be the loss born by people of lower class for the exploitation by upper caste for a period which was 10 times of British rule.
Plus another question for my fellow liberal minded upper class citizens.
Do you think the upper castes owe apologies and reparations to lower castes for atrocities they committed on lower caste for 2000 years?

I personally would not care about British people apologizing for their wrongs as they are not living with us. But Can you ignore the one half of population who was oppressed for years?

Well just to add a little bit more of perspective of caste system. I personally know some of the modern day liberal girls of so called upper caste who are willing to marry a foreigner but not a lower caste educated Indian. So that gentlemen is the story of modern day caste system.

Let me give you a simple example. I guess this will be enough to tell why General Category people hate reserved people and why reservation is definitely overused a lot.

CAT 2013.
Maybe there were some problems, maybe not, I can't say in the scoring system. But all that happened was that a person with 0 scored a roughly 55 percentile.

Also when it comes to calls, the limit for an ST student to receive a call at IIM was below the 55th percentile. I don't know the exact figure.

Basically what has made the reservation is a type of ST origin, who has no knowledge of anything,

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Let me give you a simple example. I guess this will be enough to tell why General Category people hate reserved people and why reservation is definitely overused a lot.

CAT 2013.
Maybe there were some problems, maybe not, I can't say in the scoring system. But all that happened was that a person with 0 scored a roughly 55 percentile.

Also when it comes to calls, the limit for an ST student to receive a call at IIM was below the 55th percentile. I don't know the exact figure.

So basically what reservation has done is a guy from ST background, having no knowledge about anything, gets a 0 in CAT and is still called to the CAT. He may be from a very affluent family or he may be from a poor family.
While on the other hand a General category guy, even after scoring 99 percentile may not get a call just because he is general.


After this, you think that General people will not have a hatred towards reserved categories?

Forget the past. At that time The Britishers ruled us and no one was spared. The brahmins oppressed the lower castes and I cannot say I am proud of it. But does that mean, we will stick to the past. If we do away with this reservation, there will be equality of oppurtunity.

Reservation of the economically backward is definitly required, but reservation based on Caste is just a ridiculous concept which might have been needed ages ago. But continuing that has led to students from the reserved Category to bear the hatred.


I'l say one more example which happened with me. A classmate of mine got around 8 marks less than me in PMT finals. He got a final call while I was not even in the waitlist. Why? Because he was an SC. His family condition at that time was even better than mine, his schooling was better than mine. But still, he is reserved and he will be reaping the benefits. Not only at the college level, but also at PG level and also for jobs. Is this fair you think?

I completed my BE from Mumbai University. While searching for admissions, my caste (community) was not eligible for reservations. When I was in the third year of engineering, my caste (community) was included in the OBC. So I have never reaped the benefit of the reserve.

Returning to admissions, generally in any university, we have 60 places for a particular discipline of engineering.

So total number of seats = 60

35% of the places belong to the Management Fee. So, out of 60 seats, 21 seats go to the Administration Fee.

So the number of seats remaining = 60 - 21 = 39

27% of seats are reserved

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I completed my BE from Mumbai University. While searching for admissions, my caste (community) was not eligible for reservations. When I was in the third year of engineering, my caste (community) was included in the OBC. So I have never reaped the benefit of the reserve.

Returning to admissions, generally in any university, we have 60 places for a particular discipline of engineering.

So total number of seats = 60

35% of the places belong to the Management Fee. So, out of 60 seats, 21 seats go to the Administration Fee.

So the number of seats remaining = 60 - 21 = 39

27% of the seats are reserved for OBC and 23% for SC \ ST. So the percentage of seats reserved for OBC + SC + St = 27 + 23 = 50%

So of the 39 seats that were left, 19 seats are OBC, SC, and ST.

So now the number of seats left is 39 - 19 = 20

Now we have girls quota of 33%. So this means, of the 20 seats left, 6 would be reserved for girls. So we are left with 20 - 6 = 14 seats.

Lastly, 4 seats are kept for candidates coming in through AIEEE.

So, the situation is so unfortunate for the Open Category guys here that of 60 seats, there's just 10 seats left.

So while the college brochure may say 60 seats for Information Technology or Computer Science, it means just 10 seats if you are an Open Category guy.

I have had many friends in my college who belonged to OBC \ SC \ ST category. We never discriminated against each other. Also, many of them had their own vehicles. Yet, an OBC student would pay somewhere around 35000 as annual fees, whereas SC and ST category students would pay around 15000 as fees. The Open Category student would shell out 60000 as fees.

I am firmly against reservation. I don't think the problem of discrimination can be solved by reservation. Reservation has simply been used by our rogue politicians as a tool to divide the society for Vote Bank based politics.

On a different note, reservation if any should be on the basis of Economic \ Financial backgrounds. there are many who don't pursue higher education as they are not able to pay their fees.

Solution:
We can have reservation for Financially backward section with a clause that the reservation may not extend more than 10%. And then we have our brave soldiers serving in the Armed Forces. Let's perhaps keep aside 5% for them and 5% for candidates with Sports background. So in all, the reservation should never exceed 20%.

I belong to the General Category and I have no problem with the reservation system. As soon as I made this statement in public places, anti-reservation activists and pro-merit fundamentalists were going to argue with me and make me feel like I was doing something wrong. I believe jobs should go to anyone based on meritocracy AND ABILITY TO DELIVER. If CBOs are able to provide reasonable services, the change should not be based on who you are, who you know, or what wealthy family you come from. Something besides MERITOCRACY might not be owned at the end of the day. Everybody

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I belong to the General Category and I have no issue with the reservation system. As soon as I made this statement in public places, anti-reservation activists and pro-merit fundamentalists were going to argue with me and make me feel like I was doing something wrong. I believe that jobs should go to anyone based on meritocracy AND THE ABILITY TO DELIVER. If the OBCs are able to deliver sensible services, it ought to move to must not be based on who you are, who you know or what rich family you come from. Something besides MERITOCRACY might not be property within the end of the day. Everybody from no matter caste will equip themselves and discipline themselves to try to do an honest job. (But if there's continually a definite proportion selected for a definite class of persons, bound individuals can take life simply and relax, whereas others have to be compelled to slog. This is often happening in several places, including India also.)

The reservation policy in Government of India jobs are given underneath the subsequent section/categories.

1. General / Unreserved - 50.5 %

2. OBC - Other Backward Classes - 27 %

3. Scheduled Caste - 15 %

4. Scheduled Tribe - 7.5%

4. Persons with Physical Disability - 3% horizontal reservation in all categories

The implementation of the reservation system isn't precisely because of the proportion mentioned above.

The General/Unreserved - 50.5 % is for all - anyone from any of the categories can be selected in this category.

For example for appointment to 100 posts and from a merit list of 500 candidates, the first 50 irrespective of their category gets selected for the posts AS GEN/UR !

Then the next 51 - 78 - Only OBC candidates are eligible for selection

Then 78 - 100 - are meant for SC/ST candidates

The Outcome might be - There are advantage lists or selected lists that consists of over 35 candidates who belongs to OBC,SC or ST in the first 50 which was originally meant for UR/Gen and in addition to that, the reservation quota 51 - 100 for OBC, SC

Hence it's probable that in the General Category (candidates who do not have any kind of reservation quota), the possibilities of choice comes down terribly drastically.

I think this is often the primary reason for the disagreement among bound sections relating to the reservation policy.

It seems illogical here, everyone is excited when talking about this topic, but I think everyone wants to abolish the castes, but the reservation wants to continue ... I don't understand ... I agree, there is definitely something good in the reservation , but now the question is, is it reaching the right people ... with the current reserve system, the rich in a backward community are getting richer and the poor in the same community are getting poorer .. How do we develop our nation? The case is like this now, if there are X numbers of seats reserved for a community, the

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Its looks illogical here ,everybody is emotional when speaking about this topic but just think every want to abolish caste but reservation wants to be continued.. i'm not understanding.... i agree definitely there is something good about reservation but now the question is ,is it reaching the right people .... with current reservation system rich of a backward community is getting richer and poor of the same community is getting poorer... is this okay with you guys....sis this the way we develop our nation? The case is like this now, if there are X numbers of seats reserved for a community then actually X+Y people of the same community is fighting for it , now under this competition there are some rich people of the same community and their parents being in good position both economically and educationally ,children of these people definitely have the better chance to get reservation , of course 'some' really deprived people get it. The point to be noted here is this , the reservation system now which was benefiting "lot" in past in now benefiting "some". Again as you people were saying the so called 'development' of a community in stalled , to all people who cleverly argued here supporting current reservation are actually the cleverest i will say , they develop themselves and don't help others and wants reservation again and again , deprived of their community still remain deprived and these people show those people and say "see how many people are still deprived in my community so we need reservation in the current form to continue" but the hard fact is these people gets the benefit again and again.
Some people spoke from the point of view of social acceptance on people from backward community. To all those i ask a simple question ,do you people now from a backward community treat all people same? once you get into a good position do you people actually treat the poor of your family same? .You might disagree this for argument sake but do deep from heart you know how you treat people. Social acceptance comes from people mindset changing not from position,money or education.Even a uneducated fellow , a poor man , a man with lowest position should be accepted by all of us and this will not happen overnight ,might not even happen in our lifetime , but will change gradually and again for that reservation is not the thing that is going to help , to be very frank ,its all about restoring the HUMANITY in all of us. We people(any people without discrimination) lost our humanity and that is causing all the problem.Lets please teach our children humanity ,then things will change for sure.
RESERVATIONS are MUST , i don't say ,its not at all needed . But i can appreciate reservation only if at least 50-70% of reservation reaches the actual grass root people , if many sons/daughters of our farmers gets more benefited, if many sons/daughters a coolies get more benefited , if sons/daughters of street vendors gets benefited ,if many sons/daughters of homeless gets benefited. Many here might dis-agree with all these and say you are batting against reservation and giving false reasoning , to all those i would say please turn back and look at the people of your community itself ,who are deprived from all the benefits of reservation due to many other factors and how people at other side gets benefited more and more. All those who really care about our nation and upbringing of people from lower community will definitely i agree my point.
Again don't come with an excuse simply for argument sake by just showing 9-10 people of your community who were deprived and got these benefits ,just think about remaining who are getting benefited again and again,still if you argue, nothing more to say.
Our job now is not to fight whether reservation is necessary or not but to find out loop holes in reservation system and clean it properly so that the actually deprived of a lower community gets their due benefit.

After reading most of the answers here in this forum, i found out two points have been highlighted for supporting the reservation system
1. it should be supported because SC/OBC categories are poor.
2. why remove reservation why not caste discrimination.

so the first points the people in the reserved categories are poor, so the people in the general category are my dear friends, I am a general category guy and I come from a very poor environment (financially), so if they financially weak people are the candidate who deserves the reservation so why is it based on castes, why not eliminate all types of reservation based on cas

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After reading most of the answers here in this forum, I found that two points have been highlighted to support the reservation system
1. It must be compliant because SC / OBC categories are deficient.
2. Why remove the reservation, why not caste discrimination?

so the first points reserved categories' people are poor so general category people are my dear friends, i am a general category guy and i am coming from a very poor(financially) background, so if financially weak persons are the deserving candidate for the reservation so why it is caste based why not remove all kind of reservation based on caste and give reservation to financially weak guys whether it is SC/OBC/GEN or whatever.

and now to the second point, yes everybody here is in favor of removing the caste discrimination(either GEN or Reserved).

so what is the main root that in the 21st century people are discriminated on the basis of caste? the answer is "Reservation" .

yes dear friends reservation is the root cause why reserved categories are still considered low. let me give you an example of my self , i grow up in the environment where my almost all friends were from reserved categories, we never discriminated each other on the basis of caste, but when i grow up and had to face the reality of our caste based reservation system i started discriminating people, and i started seeing them as if i a reserved category friend is standing equal to me he is less qualified than me because he is having the advantage of reservation and i am not.

No, i didn't loose any of my friend instead kept making friend regardless of the categories because in my eyes all humans are equal, i still have friends in all the categories they are not untouchables neither for me nor to any one from my friends, we always roam together, eat together(Yes in one plate) and have fun and my best friend belongs to a reserved category. but when it comes to qualification i always see that reserved category are usually less qualified than a general category candidate (if they are standing at an equal place) because they got the advantage of reservation.

let me give you another example , there was an officer rank bureaucrat in my hometown who belongs to SC category whose daughter was studying in a very reputed school of our native place and she was getting the scholarship,isn't it funny. this money should go to the poor student regardless the category but it was not.

so in my eyes it is the reservation system who is discriminating us not the lower caste or upper caste people, reservation should be there for those who deserves it (like financially weak people) not on the basis of caste.

Hello,
The following is my personal experience and it might help you understand both sides, the LOWER CAST and the UPPER CAST ...
PHASE 1:
Since childhood, my dad is a very legitimate person and when I was a child he never He told me what caste I belong to (oh I didn't mention it yet ... I'm SC or you can say CHAMAR that a lot of people don't even like to listen and use to abuse). I started my studies at a very young age due to my academic excellence ... and just to mention that I studied in government. school (provides reservation). I joined the school in a big city as a general category.

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Hi,
The following is my personal experience and may be it will help you to understand both the sides, the LOWER CASTE and the UPPER CASTE...
PHASE 1:
Starting from childhood, my dad is a very self rightious person and when I was a kid he never told me what caste I belong to (oh I didn't mention yet... I am SC or you can say CHAMAR that many people don't even like to hear and use for abusing). I started my studies at very early age due to my academic excellence... and just to mention that I studied in govt. school(it provides reservation). I joined the school in a big city as a general cateegory student.
PHASE 2:
After some time my dad got transferred to a samll town and so did I. And for the first time I got to know that there are two kind of students in our class. One who pay their full fees and the second one (who stand in front of whole class for whole lecture waiting for thier turn to submit fees because our teacher is trying to identify them as SC/ST students).
PHASE 3:
Again transferred to another place. That time I was in X and in my registration form I had to fill my category. I didn't even had idea what that is but our teacher told us to tick on Gen and I did that. But something stuck to my mind. I was so confused that how is this possible to divide students if they are not differently abled. So I went home and asked my mom. She described me the whole caste system and also where we belong in that categorization. I was so proud of my dad that day. But sometime later when I started making friends and get to know other people I met some "PROUD TO BE UPPER CLASS" people who used "NAMES OF LOWER CASTES" for abusing people. Many times I confronted them and as noone knew I am SC they were even trying to convince me how bad the "LOWER CASTE" peoplw are. Later on govt. approved OBC reservation and look what happened... those "PROUD UPPER CLASS" people are among those "LOWER CASTE" and the fun thing is they fought for it... "FROM THE LOWEST IN UPPER CLASS THEY WANTED TO BE UPPER IN LOWER CASTE". and why all that? Just to have reservation. This doesn't mean they are going to stop abusing people. And making illegal salary proofs is not a big deal in India (intended to so called creamy layer).
PHASE 4:
I joined college and as per my family rules I didn't apply for any reservation. I got admission in a decent college but now students are not anymore decent. With age people develop a tendency to identify the caste of a person as soon as they met them. And as my surname was self-revealing they took me as "LOWER CASTE". Obviously not my friends, they always respected me but those who always cry and abuse about reservation system and don't even had guts to talk this me on my face. So, this is the phase where I got to know about one more kind i.e. the politician kind. And belive me this is the worst kind. They don't have anything to do with competition. Thier whole life is to brag about the system(any system) and provoke others who have other important things to do just for vote(in college their vote, sometimes they join some politician's party then thier votes and so on).
I have seen the same pople filling the scholarship forms (issued for those having annual family income < 2 lakh) with illegal salary certificates. Moving on, since I didn't cleared JEE and wanted badly to be a part of IIT, I attempted GATE. And guess what, I was the only person in my whole college who qualified (and that too with good marks).
PHASE 5:
Here comes the time for admission in M.Tech. I had sufficient marks for a good college but not sufficient for IIT so I consulted my friends(all were from GEN category). And all of them together advised me to take on the opportunity as I would be a fool not to do that. My father told me that I am old enough to take my own decisions and he will not say anything as this should be my decision alone. I took admission.
May be the reason I took that decision was somehow dependent on my experience with the treatment with "LOWER CASTE" and also IIT was the biggest factor.
I kept repeating to myself manytimes that if they cannot take us as equal then why should we leave what is our right.
Its not about supporting reservation or not but I can bet on this If this is the situation, 90% of people would have chosen the same path as me (including gen. category).
Yes I agree on this that reservation has to end, because I know I would have prepared even harder for next year and gt admission from GEN.
But sometimes that fear of losing your 1 year is far more than taking the caste burden on your head.
And meanwhile I even met so many SC people who supported reservation as their right. They never give it a second thought. And the reason is same "If they are not stopping then why should we".
This is a cycle and someone has to stop it. And from my point of view both the categories are equally capable in this. But the effort has to be combined.
It is the responsibitlity of both. If one needs to stop dicrimination and abusing, other has to think that if they are financially capable they can leave this.
Following are some suggestions for both the categories:
GEN:-
1. Don't use caste based words in front of anyone. They are also as human as you and sometimes even more brighter, beautiful, stronger and intelligent.
2. Do not let your kids be part of this caste system. (try to make them neutral)
3. Try not to make caste based groups and organizations.
SC/ST
1. Do not think people are abusing you. Be proud of what you are. That was a common case 10 years ago maybe but not anymore. Atleast not in private sector.
2. Let your kids know their caste but do not ever teach them to take reservations as a step to reach their success. I know it will hurt at first but after some time you will feel good.
3. Do not wait for your relatives to stop using the system for you to stop.
4. Help other SC/ST people with low financial backgrounds about this and help them getting education. (Because a major part of SC/ST who deserve this system, don't even know about it as they are not literate and aware).
And at last for both:
If you are a part of govt. organization do not think that any SC/ST/Gen candidate know less than you(that may just be the case but not always). So stop supporting your own caste even when they are not worthy.
And may be, someday both discrimination and the caste based reservation ends for the good of all.

NOTE: I am proud to be what I am. And I have pledged that I will definitely not choose caste based reservation for my kids.
The reason for being anonymous is I have shared almost my whole life here. And I don't want to make it public.


Edit 1: http://www.quora.com/Caste-Discrimination/What-is-the-viewpoint-of-the-SC-ST-and-OBC-category-students-as-to-why-the-reservation-system-should-be-continued/answers/5295474/comment/4786632?__snids__=464668868&__nsrc__=1#comment4786632
please all look into this comment and tell me from which angle this is not "DISCRIMINATION or abusing" .

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